The Shark

somebody's got a future in career services.

[cynthia foster]

Need advice on your career trajectory?  You could always just get some, unsolicited-style, from the guy in your backseat.

don't drink that koolaid: law school is not a recession-proof bunker.

[brian lauter]

Last week I read an article by Nathan Koppel entitled “Best Defense? Seeking a Haven in Law School” on the Wall Street Journal’s website. The article suggests that law school is a good place for college graduates to “hide out” during the recession and it was also mentioned in the WSJ Law Blog and over at Law and More.

Going to law school to “hide out” from the recession is a really bad idea and it's irresponsible to suggest otherwise.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from being in law school, it’s that you should really only go to law school if you absolutely want to do law-related work, or if somebody else is going to pay for it. People that go because they can’t think of anything else to do or are trying to “hide out” from something often end up dissatisfied with the law school experience and/or trapped in jobs they don’t enjoy.

Of course, that’s not what law school administrators will tell you. Here are a few quotes from Mr. Koppel’s article:

Mr. Rodney Smolla, dean of the Washington and Lee University School of Law: “In up and down times, economies as complex as ours need a lot of legal services”

Really? Because all I’ve seen is a whole lot of attorneys being laid off and a whole lot of law students who don’t have jobs. It makes sense that complex economies need a lot of legal services in “up times,” but then Mr. Smolla went and threw “down times” in there, which, despite being the operative phrase, doesn’t seem to have any foundation in reality.

Mr. Paul Berman, dean of Arizona State’s Sandra Day O’Connor School of Law: “As compared to other graduate programs, [law school] is more analytically rigorous and touches more areas of society.”

Yeah? Because it seems like law school really just touches the law. You know what graduate programs seem to touch just as many “areas of society” as law? Sociology; Political Science; Medicine; and Business. I admit these don’t seem like particularly good bets right now either, but I also don’t see polisci professors out there encouraging people to “hide out” in Political Science PhD programs.

Ms. Claire Arnett, a senior at University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill: “Whether I end up practicing, I feel like it's a good degree to have.”

I don’t know Ms. Arnett’s personal situation, but it sounds like she’s falling into the age-old “versatile J.D.” fairy tale. The National Law Journal busted this myth way back in November and I commented. A J.D. is not a post-graduate liberal arts degree.

Law school is a worthy and valuable experience, but the time, money, and psychological commitments are too large to do it just to “hide out.”

In times like these, law school administrators should be selling law school as law school and not as snake oil.

usf career panel addresses changing outlook of legal industry.

[pam smith]

There’s a career panel going on in downtown S.F. tonight at 6, and a couple of big-firm people are supposed to be taking part: Perkins Coie’s Michael Gotham (director of attorney recruiting and retention) and Nixon Peabody’s Ann Miller (a San Francisco partner who’s served as hiring partner before). Lobbyist Meg Catzen-Brown is also supposed to be there, giving her point of view on legislative trends in D.C. and Sacramento that may hint at what areas of legal work might actually be growing.

The event, sponsored by one of the USF School of Law’s alumni groups, is open to the public. You don’t have to be USF-affiliated, but it carries a price: $15 for current USF law students, $25 for new-ish attorneys (2003-2008 law grads from anywhere) and $35 for more experienced attorneys. It’s taking place at the Academy of Art University building at 79 New Montgomery St. Registration starts at 5:30 and discussion at 6, with a reception to follow at 7.

We chatted up Jeff Brand, the dean at USF’s law school, who will be moderating, for a preview. He expects the audience to be a real mix of students, recent grads and more seasoned attorneys. “I can tell you we’re going to focus on what the outlook is, changes in the work environment in light of the crisis, and practical advice they [the panelists] would give, sitting where they sit.” 

got hope? no, actually. i'm headed for a "regular" job and my parents' couch.

[brian lauter]

Here comes the next installment of The Shark’s “got hope?” series. First, however, let’s take a minute to reflect on what we’ve heard so far.

We’ve talked to a wanna-be prosecutor, a wanna-be Biglaw attorney, and a wanna-be plaintiffs’ attorney. It’s been a fairly diverse group, but many of their answers have been similar.

They all say that over 50% of their friends are unemployed. None of them seem to have any ideas about how to get jobs or of what “alternative careers” they might pursue. All three have blamed the economy to some extent, and two out of three said that they would not recommend going to law school.

Next up in the series is “Bartleby,” an unemployed 3L who was considering work in both the public and private sectors, and really isn’t a fan of law school.

Ed. Note: If you are interested in participating in an email survey on your job search experiences, please contact us. 

Disclaimer:  To encourage candid responses we’ve used pseudonyms to disguise the interviewees’ identities.

Brian:  Why did you come to law school?

Bartleby:  I always enjoyed arguing and writing and I worked in an office with a bunch of attorneys who I admired and seemed to enjoy being lawyers.  People said I’d make a good lawyer and it seemed like a good fit for me.

Brian:  Can you give me a brief rundown of the jobs you’ve had in law school or the route(s) you’ve pursued?

Bartleby:  My first summer I worked for a judge.  My second summer I worked at a smaller class action plaintiffs’ firm.  I’ve also interned at the California DOJ.  I want to do consumer advocacy or environmental/land use work.

Brian:  Why haven’t these worked out?  (i.e. Why don’t you have a job now?) 

Bartleby:  Well, I took a job at a small, but well-respected, litigation firm where I knew I would get good experience.  I knew they might not have room to hire me, and they didn’t, but I still figured I could parlay my experience into a job at a similar firm that did have room or go into the public sector.  Nobody is really hiring anymore, though, so that hasn’t really worked out.

Brian:  Are you depressed/discouraged yet?  Do you feel like it’s the economy’s fault and not yours?

Bartleby:  I’m pretty depressed and discouraged about employment stuff at least.  I feel like it’s mostly the economy’s fault.  I guess I should have tried to just get a job at a big firm last summer instead of going for the experience.  I didn’t cover my ass very well there, but the reason I can’t get anything at all now is because of the economy I think.

Brian:  How has your search for a job impacted your personal life? 

Bartleby:  Earlier this year I spent a lot of time working on getting a job.  Recently, I’ve pretty much given up, so my personal life has been pretty much normal, just a little less carefree.

Brian:   What does your family think about you not having a job?  Are they freaked out?  Supportive? 

Bartleby:  My parents don’t seem too freaked out.  I mean, I think they’re worried that I will have problems paying back my loans and that I’m unhappy, but they’re supportive.  They even offered to let me stay on the couch if I don’t have a job after the bar.

Brian:  What are your plans if you get to the point, say you’ve taken the bar, and you still don’t have a job lined up?

Bartleby:  I guess I’ll keep applying, maybe try to substitute teach or get a regular job to pay the bills.

Read the rest of Bartleby's interview after the jump.

got hope? maybe we all just need to think outside of the biglaw box.

[brian lauter]

So far this week we’ve heard from two unemployed 3Ls: Jaggers, who is pursuing a career as a prosecutor, and Dawes, who is pursuing a career in corporate law.

My next interview subject is “Pearlman,” a jobless 3L with government and private sector experience who is now pinning her hopes on the public sector.

Ed. Note: If you are interested in participating in an email survey on your job search experiences, please contact us. 

Disclaimer:  To encourage candid responses we’ve used pseudonyms to disguise the interviewees’ identities.

Brian: Why did you come to law school?

Pearlman: Med school didn't work out, so I tried being a paralegal after I graduated college and it seemed like it might be a good fit.

Brian: Can you give me a brief rundown of the jobs you've had in law school or the route(s) you've pursued?

Pearlman: During my first summer I worked at the California Chamber of Commerce, my second summer I worked at a private firm that took on plaintiffs' securities class action suits. This year, I've externed at the AG's office and am now at a local state courthouse.

Brian: Why haven't these worked out? (i.e. Why don't you have a job now?)

Pearlman: Well, I'm still hoping the AG might work out, but I can't apply until after I graduate. I didn't get an offer from my job this past summer, but I wasn't that surprised. Going in they told us that they would only offer jobs to one or two people, and they did just that. Would have been nice to get an offer, though, of course.

Brian: Are you depressed/discouraged yet? Do you feel like it's the economy's fault and not yours?

Pearlman: I'm sometimes depressed, always discouraged. I totally blame the economy because that's easier, but sometimes I wish I had made different decisions that would have given me better job prospects now.

Read the rest of Dawes' interview, in which she talks about while she'll likely "go government" or "get creative," after the jump.

got hope? think of the jd as a long term investment. and a social opportunity!

[brian lauter]

Next up in The Shark’s got hope? interview series is Dawes, a jobless 3L who thought she had a nice job lined up at a large, well-known law firm, but was no-offered for “macroeconomic reasons.”

Ed. Note: If you are interested in participating in an email survey on your job search experiences, please contact us.  You can read our previous interview with 3L Jaggers here.

Disclaimer:  To encourage candid responses we’ve used pseudonyms to disguise the interviewees’ identities.

Brian:    Why did you come to law school?
Dawes:  Because I was tired of being a secretary with a college education. I’d always thought about it, but took 2 years off before deciding to go. Wanted more job options/security - ha.

Brian:  Can you give me a brief rundown of the jobs you’ve had in law school or the route(s) you’ve pursued?
Dawes:  Public interest, small law firm, big law firm

Brian:  Why haven’t these worked out?  (i.e. Why don’t you have a job now?) 
Dawes:  The only one of those 3 that could have actually ended up providing a position is the big law firm. I honestly had no warning that I wouldn’t get an offer. I was told it was due to “macroeconomic reasons,” but they certainly didn’t warn me of any two weeks before in my final end of summer review when they said they loved me and “hoped to work with me in the future.”

Brian:  Are you depressed/discouraged yet? 
Dawes:  I’m discouraged, but not depressed. I’m just not really sure what to do about my situation and wonder at what point I should totally give up on having a law-related job.

Read the rest of Dawes' interview, in which she seems to be cautiously optimistic about her future and not so bitter about her law school experience, after the jump.

got hope for the future? yeah, but not for my future as a lawyer...

[brian lauter]

For weeks we’ve been reporting bad employment news here at The Shark. Law school recruiting is down, offers are being rescinded, and government agencies are instituting hiring freezes.

So, we’ve seen a lot of upsetting statistics recently, but it’s sometimes hard to tell how the tanking legal job market is really affecting law students who don’t have a job lined up. To get a better handle on how jobless 3Ls are dealing with the poor job market, I asked several 3Ls about their experiences, outlooks, and prospects. We’ll be presenting these interviews to you throughout the week.  Look for the got hope? logo on each.

Ed. Note: If you are interested in participating in an email survey on your job search experiences, please contact us.

Disclaimer:  To encourage candid responses we’ve used pseudonyms to disguise the interviewees’ identities.

Brian:    Why did you come to law school?
Jaggers:     I wanted to continue my education rather than get a job just to get by after college.  I also figured going to law school would allow me to better pursue practically any serious job I wanted.

Brian:    Can you give me a brief rundown of the jobs you’ve had in law school or the route(s) you’ve pursued?
Jaggers:    I’ve worked for the major crimes unit in a DA office, a nonprofit organization called the Senior Legal Hotline, and for the California Attorney General.

Brian:    Why haven’t these worked out?  (i.e. Why don’t you have a job now?) 
Jaggers:    DA offices in California have let go many of their newer attorneys and even rescinded offers for 3Ls that have been assured a job.  For the DA office I worked for, 400 people interviewed for 4 open spots – most of those people included displaced deputy DAs and other 3Ls from schools all over the state.  The senior legal hotline had its funding substantially cut and is unable to take on new employees while struggling to keep the few it already has. 

Brian:    Are you depressed/discouraged yet?  Do you feel like it’s the economy’s fault and not yours?
Jaggers:    I absolutely feel like this is the economy’s fault.  I’ve consistently been in the top 15-20% of my class at a top tier law school, I have letters of recommendation from each of my employers and I have experience in several different areas of law.
I’m no longer depressed about the situation though – I’m viewing it as a blessing in disguise.  Truth be told, I don’t even want to be lawyer.  The lack of legal jobs out there will allow me to pursue something I actually enjoy, rather than get sucked into a career that will destroy my soul.

Brian:    How has your search for a job impacted your personal life?  Your school life (i.e. Do you dedicate a lot of time to it?  Do you feel like you still have to work harder?)?
Jaggers:    My search for a job did take a lot of my time at the beginning of the year.  Now, however, with the consensus being that there are no available jobs out there for law school graduates, I feel that a continued search would be fruitless.  I’ve read articles about how a law school grad’s best option is to move to Dubai or get into scooping dog poo.

Read the rest of Jaggers' interview, in which he assesses the number of his friends who are jobless or on a fruitless hunt and levies some pretty serious criticisms against career services offices, after the jump.

bad news bears and captain obvious sit down to discuss your future.

[brian lauter]

NALP released a report on 2008 fall recruiting yesterday and it contains all kinds of depressing statistics, many of them in the form of depressing charts. The gist of the report probably won’t surprise anybody (law student recruiting = worse than usual), but it’s always nice to have the numbers.

I know how annoying it is to click on things and read articles, so here are the highlights from the National Law Journal’s synopsis:

“About 90% of 2008 summer associates were offered full-time positions, compared to about 93% in 2007.”

And some bad news for 3Ls looking for jobs:

“Only 25% of firms said they recruited 3Ls not previously employed by them, compared to about 66% in recent years.”

And back to 2Ls:

“The median number of offers to 2Ls for summer associate positions at firms of all sizes fell from 15 in the fall of 2007 to 10 in the fall of 2008. The decline was even steeper at firms with 700 or more attorneys, where the median number of summer associate offers fell from 30 in 2007 to 18.5 in 2008.”

Finally, something for everybody:

“Close to half of law schools — 46% — reported a decrease of 5% or more in firm participation in recruiting activities.”

It’s not as bad being the bearer of bad news when everybody already knows the bad news you’re bearing.

Check out other bad news bearers ATL, The Blackbook Legal Blog, and Nuts & Boalts.

the aba: ruining your education, your career, your life.

[brian lauter]

Sometimes, problems with legal education are all U.S. News’ fault, and sometimes they’re all the ABA’s fault.

Ready to play the blame game again? This week, they’re the ABA’s fault.

At least that’s what Dean Lawrence Vevel of the Massachusetts School of Law at Andover and Kurt Olson, an assistant law professor there, argue in their new book, “The Gathering Peasants’ Revolt in American Legal Education.”

You may remember Dean Velvel for his efforts to try George W. Bush for war crimes.  You may also remember him for calling for Rod Blagojevich’s acquittal. Or you may remember him as another high profile victim of Bernie Madoff’s ponzi scheme.  Just as long as you remember him.

A brief and non-comprehensive list of the Velvel/Olson grievances against the ABA:

· The ABA has drastically lowered the permissible faculty to student ratio in law schools and refuses to count adjunct professors, which drives up the cost of legal education.

· The ABA prohibits professors from doing administrative work, forcing law schools to hire many more personnel, which drives up the cost of legal education.

· The ABA forces law schools to build new physical facilities or renovate existing facilities, driving up the cost of legal education.

Velvel and Olson go on to argue that top law schools don’t criticize the ABA because they benefit financially from these rules, and less established law schools don’t criticize the ABA because they are scared of having their accreditations revoked.

This sounds about right, and, in case you forgot, the ABA is also responsible for stifling law school innovation and forcing law schools to “build an Acura instead of a Corolla.”

What I don’t understand is how these accreditation standards can be changed or if they should be. The ABA, according to what I do understand, is basically a voluntary association of lawyers and law students. It is governed by a representative body. Doesn’t this suggest that the legal community, at some level, has considered and endorsed the ABA standards?

That’s not a rhetorical question, I really don’t know enough about how the ABA operates to answer it. Until I do, it’s the ABA’s fault this week, and U.S. News’ the next.

is free tuition enough to get scared students to school?

[cynthia foster]

For all of those interested in the free tuition program at UC Irvine's new law school, Petra has an interesting look over at Cal Law.  The story is free with registration, and includes a discussion with Director of Admissions Victoria Ortiz, formerly of Boalt.

"[Ortiz] and her staff at UC-Irvine's law school have been traveling to various corners of the country to recruit students at college fairs in places like New England, Pennsylvania, Chicago, Washington, D.C., Atlanta, Michigan and Minnesota. Ortiz has also met with pre-law advisers and with college clubs and societies. When candidates ask about job prospects, Ortiz points out the 70 or so employers that have pledged to at least interview on the law school's campus, including firms like Bingham McCutchen; Allen Matkins Leck Gamble Mallory & Natsis; Arnold & Porter; Irell & Manella; Morrison & Foerster and O'Melveny & Myers."

Petra also delves deeper into enrollment trends this year, and how schools are dealing with the uncertain applicant pool sizes.

To read more, check the story out here and continue to stay tuned into The Shark as we bring you more news on the changing climates law students and prospective law students are facing.